An interview with Armin Vit (Podcast) đ
In this episode, Arek Dvornechuck interviews Armin Vit and we talk about effective logo design.
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1. How to critique logos?
âArek Dvornechuck:
Whatâs up branding experts! â Arek here at Ebaqdesign. And welcome to On Branding Podcast, the only podcast where I interview branding experts to give you actionable tips on everything branding and beyond! And in this episode, I interview Armin Vit and we talk about tips for effective logo design. Armin has established himself as an influential figure in logo design space through his blog called âBrand Newâ which is a very popular blog and design community where you can basically find a lot of blogger and brand identity reviews, including redesigns on some of the top brands, but Armin also works at the iconic design firm, the Pentagram in its New York office. And now he also works with clients under his own design firm UnderConsideration. So, Armin is an expert when it comes to logos. And thatâs why I really wanted to have him on our podcast today! Hello, Armin. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on our podcast.
Armin Vit:
Sure thing. Thank you for having me, Arek.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Thanks. So, youâve reviewed countless new logos, so youâre probably the most experienced person when it comes to critiquing them. So, we would love you to share with us some tips for designing an effective logo. So hopefully is going to help us become better or just more effective at designing logos and brand identities. So, letâs imagine that we have to design a new logo for a brand, whether it is for our client or our own brand. So, now we have a bunch of ideas, and we got some concepts and how to judge them. Because we either donât have any criteria, or we â our criteria is very vague, and kind of random. So, letâs start talking about what makes a great logo from the aesthetic point of view?
Armin Vit:
Yeah, so I think one thing that holds true, you know, after 50 years, 60 years of logo design is that the more simple and memorable a logo is, the more effective it becomes not just for people to remember it, but for the product or service or organization using it, to deploy it, to produce it in whatever medium they have to do to use it on. So, I think that remains the cornerstone of a good logo design, whether you know how simple it is and that doesnât mean that it has to be boring or minimal. Itâs just how direct, is it in its message in its execution? Does it communicate what you want it to do, what you want it to communicate as quickly as possible?
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. So, it needs to communicate the right thing. So, you have to do some kind of discovery phase or research phase, search your competitors, get to know the company, if itâs a startup? How â whatâs the vision for the future? And perhaps if itâs a rebrand, then you need to get to know the company and its history just to determine how you can take them into the future. Right? So, but also talking about like things pure aesthetics, like proportions, scalability, alignment, and those type of things. What would you say is the most important? What are the most important aspects, in terms of aesthetics?
Armin Vit:
All of the things that you mentioned are important. So, proportions scale, you know, how one element relates to another in terms of spatial relationship? You know, if you have something with multiple strokes, are those strokes the same â thickness they have, space, the same spacing in between? You know, the colors are they pleasant to use on print and online? Are â is a typeface that you choose? Pleasant, and I think pleasant, is subjective. Obviously, everything here is subjective. But I think once you start, like really analyzing what the elements are, youâre using and being very critical about those, you know, what does this say, what does this typeface choice, say? And again, itâs subjective, but I think based on â if you compare it to other logos in similar industries, or even the only there are different industries, but then you want to achieve something similar to those logos, and itâs not that youâre going to copy it but if you think that the Airbnb logo is successful in some way or another, what about it? Is it is appealing to you and what from it, can you replicate in your own logo?
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. So, you suggest basically do what you do. So, you analyze different logos and rebrands. And then based on that, we can learn what makes a great logo. Right? Or what makes out what makes a bad logo?
Armin Vit:
Yeah, I think itâs important to know whatâs out there. And in real in a sort of seeing what other designers react to positively so that, then you can make an informed decision that, âOh okayâ, so something like this works. And even if you donât know why, just knowing that a large group of people, you know, thinking specifically about brand new, or a blog, where all of a sudden, if you have 20, people saying this is great, then you have to think, âOkay, what makes this great?â, what can I take from this and apply in my own way to my own logos. So, without those points of reference, it becomes really hard to just become an expert and know whatâs good or bad if youâre isolated from whatâs out there.
2. Identity system elements
âArek Dvornechuck:
Right. So basically, just, to sum up, is about colors and fonts and shapes. And using those elements of visual language to design something that is visually appealing, right? You know, but itâs not just about the logo, right? Because the logo is like a centerpiece of everything. But this gets us closer to talking more about the identity system. Because since logos need to be simple, as mentioned earlier, in order to become memorable, we can show a lot more creativity in actually â executing the identity system. Right. So, can we just talk about that, I just wanted you to share with us some of your thoughts on designing an identity system because you have a lot of experience looking at, you know, different, maybe unusual ways of how designers use logos, or its element or some supporting graphic, additional graphics, additional graphic elements to build that identity system?
Armin Vit:
Yep. One thing with logos is that it cannot, a logo can only do so much, which is a good thing because then it just becomes a representation of the company product or service. But then itâs at, what accompanies that logo that complements it, that completes the message that youâre trying to convey. And it allows you an identity system that allows you to build on the attributes that you want to portray. So if you want it to be happy, you know, you can have colorful illustrations, you can have photos of smiling people, you can have a bold, cheerful font, whatever that may be, all those elements have to support the logo and support and complement the logo so that youâre able to convey a more complete message that a logo simply cannot deliver. So it really becomes it opens up the opportunities to do many different things that are that can start to be more interesting, that could start to be more daring, more ambitious than whatever you try to do with a logo because then these are the things that youâre going to put on a brochure that youâre going to put on social media that youâre going to put on advertising, whatever that may be. So you have bigger canvases, you have more you know if it has motion, or if itâs a TV ad or a YouTube ad, all of a sudden, you can tell a story in a matter of 15 seconds or five seconds that you just canât do with a logo. So that is great, the identity is almost as important as the logo in that youâre able to fully realize whatever message is youâre trying to say.
Arek Dvornechuck:
So, itâs about the big idea right. So, as you said, your identity can complement your logo or may sometimes contrast with the logo, right? So, if the logo is super simple, have you can show creativity to the identity system. And then you also need to think about the role you want. You want your logo to play in that identity system, right. And he also mentioned which is really important to design a lot of different applications and different mockups to show how that logo will look like in real life for your clients so they can envision and they can imagine and also itâs an opportunity for us, designers, to test the viability of that logo design concept, right? Because we test that design in different applications, we can come to the conclusion that it needs some refinements.
Armin Vit:
Yeah, itâs really important to prototype as early as possible so that you can make adjustments to a logo if needed. So, you can put a logo on a white piece of paper, and it will look great. But thatâs really how logos are seen. So, once you shrink that logo down to the size of a business card, or a social media avatar, that really changes how itâs perceived. So, the more applications that you prototype and test out, the stronger the logo will be, and you can see what they you can start seeing how the identity complements that? And what are the elements that work well, on print online, in motion, things like that? So the more that you can test out upfront, the better.
3. Good logo design examples
âArek Dvornechuck:
Right, so now letâs talk about some good examples of logo design. So because you review a lot of brand identities, so perhaps summary brands or famous brands, so that we can all relate, can you give us some examples that really make a point of good design or effective? Or you think the new logo is, is super effective or well designed?
Armin Vit:
Yeah, so the trick is that different logos are effective for different needs for different companies for different situations and contexts. So, one logo that I mean, you know, a logo that is right, for someone may not be right for someone else. So, a lot of it has to do with, is it the right logo and the right identity for the right client at the right time? So, for example, la 28, the Los Angeles 2028 Olympics logo that just came out. That is, you know, if you look at it in relation to other Olympic logos, youâre like, well, thatâs super weird. You know, it has this chunky L chunky 2 chunky 8, and then it has an A, that changes dramatically. Theyâre done by different people who have different illustrations, completely different styles. And you might think, well, thatâs not right for the Olympics, not necessarily, I mean, yes, in a way, but it is right for the Olympics in Los Angeles, in 2028. where, you know, they obviously one thing is that they have to build a little bit of boss around it for the next eight years. And that thought that lower than that, but at the same time, it represents LA in a different way. It signals that the Olympics, when they come back to the US, and specifically to Los Angeles, itâs gonna be wild. I think that logo is right, for that special for that Olympics event. If you look at that another recent logo like Intel, itâs a boring logo, itâs just not exciting at all, the identity is not that great. But you know, itâs Intel is just, if they make chips for computers, have it nice, they made chips to eat, but, you know, they make microchips. So, itâs not exactly exciting. And theyâre not a company known for being bold, and very provocative or anything. So itâs a logo that for better or for worse, fits the client, you donât have to like it, I donât have to like it, but it gets the job done in a way that makes sense.
Arek Dvornechuck:
Right. So, you gave us two examples. So, LA Olympics, which is a very flexible identity like ever-changing the identity system, where a takes different forms, different expressions. And then we have, on the other hand, we have an Intel logo which is a very simple, kind of like Uber-like style, minimalist, just because Olympics Games, you have to design a new logo every four years, right? So if you do something more creative, or even trendy is just for this one of game-like, every four years, youâre going to have to design a new logo, but for Intel, a logo needs to be timeless, right?
Armin Vit:
Yeah.
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